OOoo, now Frodo's not aging, and he's having odd dreams about mountains and "wild lands". I'm really curious about what happened to Bilbo. He's bound to pop up again the story eventually, I'm sure, but will he be alive or dead? I'm also curious about the "Tree-men".
I have to find it hard to believe that Frodo resisted the temptation to wear the ring. Also, how did Gandalf know to throw the ring in the fire to see the Elvish message? I hope we eventually find out.
The Elvish language looks very cool, by the way. Does anyone know how long it took Tolkien to invent this? I remember my friend Luisa used to know all the letters off by heart.
To you filkers: what songs have been written about LOTR? How many of them actually use the lines above?
The Ringwraiths sound wonderfully evil. I think I vaguely remember them from that horrible Rotoscoped version of LOTR (I caught part of the film on television, but couldn't watch more than a few minutes...looked too silly). Liked the story of Smeagol -- explains a lot! Is there any kind of guide re: how to pronounce all these names, out of curiosity?
Very creepy to think that the Bad Guys are looking for Frodo, and that the Shire is in danger. If anything nasty happens to the Hobbits in the Shire, I'm going to be upset (unless it happens to only the Sackville-Bagginses, of course).
I like Sam; I hope nothing bad ends up happening to Sam. I also like the last paragraph of this chapter:
Replies: 29 comments
There are umpteen hundred songs written based on Tolkien's poetry. Really, there are bunches of song cycles, I'm sure you could find a list on the net somewhere. The first filksongs I ever wrote, even before I knew what filk was, was setting Tolkien's poetry to music and it looks like I had a lot of company. It's always kind of surprised me, though, that there aren't more Tolkien-inspired songs in filking, at least that I've heard.
One of the best Tolkien song cycles that I've heard recently is Margaret Davis and Kristoph Klover's "The Starlit Jewel". I picked it up at Consonance and it really is cool. Lots of harp, lots of woodwinds, nice harmonies. But if I recall correctly, they don't have the "one ring to rule them all" poem on the CD.
Posted by Allison @ 2001 May 03 10:10 AM EST
My favorite Tolkien-inspired filksong, besides the two of Scott's I mentioned a day or two back, is "Fellowship Going South", by Leslie Fish. It's probably my favorite filksong of all time.
Posted by Allison @ 2001 May 03 11:25 AM EST
I think you'll find some pronunciation guides in the appendix section of "Return of the King." I don't have them right at hand to check, though. There are also many many Readers Companion style books, one of which is sure to have something.
Posted by Rob Wynne @ 2001 May 03 02:42 PM EST
Hate to disappoint, Deb, but it wasn't the Elvish letters I knew, but the Dwarvish runes. I think very many people knew them!! I did spend some time on the English-Elvish dictionary, but didn't retain much!!
Does anyone know the history of the so-called Dwarvish Runes? I understood that Tolkein didn't make these up.
Posted by Luisa @ 2001 May 04 09:11 AM EST
Deb,
An interesting thing to keep in mind when reading LOTR is that Tolkien's primary interest was linguistics. LOTR grew out of his interest in the languages he created for it, not the other way around. I think this is one of the reasons that Middle Earth feels so rich and real, because he created the languages and mythology it's based on before he wrote the story. I have to confess to being a major fan of LOTR, I've read it at least 20 times.
Posted by Jeff Bohnhoff @ 2001 May 05 11:08 AM EST
Well, the runes are _loosely_ based on the Viking runes...
Posted by Daniel Malament @ 2001 May 07 07:14 PM EST
Interesting about Tolkien's primary interest being linguistics...that explains a lot. To Luisa: Oh! I thought you knew Elvish, not Dwarvish. Do Dwarvish runes come up later in LOTR?
Posted by Debbie @ 2001 May 07 10:59 PM EST
You're coming up on a couple of chapters in which Dwarvish runes figure prominently, Debbie. After that, you'll virtually never see them again through the entire rest of the story.
Posted by Randy Hoffman @ 2001 May 10 06:26 PM EST
You are all wrong. These are Elvish runes and were devised by them. Dwarves only used them because it was easy to cut these symbols in stone.
Posted by Azanulbizar @ 2001 May 16 07:38 AM EST
Both sets of writing are Elven. The pretty script type are the Tengwar. They are the older form and were devised by the Noldo. They are used for pen or brush work. The runes are the Cirth and were developed by the Sinda. They are used mostly for engraving. Hope that clears some things up.
As I mentioned before I at one time knew the Tengwar.
Posted by J'nae Rae Campbell @ 2001 May 16 10:33 PM EST
Tolkein/music:
Tom Smith's "The Return of the King"
SMac's "Gallamor"
Posted by H @ 2001 May 23 12:54 AM EST
SteveMac has a Tolkien song? I must ask him to sing it for me. Who or what is Gallimor?
Posted by Allison @ 2001 May 23 03:20 PM EST
Marion Zimmer Bradley once wrote a Tolkien song cycle. I may still have a copy of it -- remember the pre photocopier printing with purple ink? blanking on the name.
An "authorized" one was done by Donald Swann, setting Tolkien's poems. He also put out a record of them, I believe.
Posted by Catherine Mac @ 2001 May 30 11:01 PM EST
For those who like rock..
Led Zepplin has several LoTR based songs.
Posted by Joe @ 2001 Jun 01 11:51 AM EST
As for the Elf runes, I love them. Seriously, there is a jewelry store around where I live called "Mithril Limited". (Fans may get a gag out of this.)
I aim to go in and buy some inexpensive peice of jewelry there. Preferably something silver.
I've always wanted a gold ring with those engraved on it. I'm also thinking of how funny it would be to henna tatoo that around somebody's arm. It just screams "Tatoo me on somebody's arm!"
Posted by Nemuro @ 2001 Jun 02 01:44 AM EST
for those who like hard rock/heavy metal, Blind Guardian has several songs and a WHOLE album based on the Silmarillion (Nightfall in Middle-Earth)
Posted by Ioreth @ 2001 Jun 02 08:57 AM EST
What I can't figure out, is why does the inscription on the ring, which was written in Black Speech (a perverted form of Elvish), not rhyme, but it does rhyme when translated into Common Speach (English)? Maybe some of you Tolkien-esque linguists can answer.
Posted by Old Toby @ 2001 Jun 02 02:36 PM EST
It rhymes. Lines 1 and 3 end in -tuluk. Lines 2 and 4 end -atul. (I think. I'm doing this from memory.)
It's not pretty, it's not meant to be pretty; but it rhymes.
Posted by earandur @ 2001 Jun 06 11:09 AM EST
Ramble On. Released on Led Zeppelin's 1969 Atlantic release Lead Zeppelin II. Has much about Gollum, Mordor, and other Middle Earth things.
Posted by boba_jeff @ 2001 Jun 09 11:21 PM EST
Oh, what the heck...I'll add a couple of comments here as well:)
The second album by Rush, Fly By Night, has a song called Rivendell. Not really one of their best tunes, but not too bad. There is also a Tolkien-esque, good vs. evil song on the same album called By-Tor and the Snow Dog, and Prince By-tor makes a comeback (on the good side this time) on their third album, Caress of Steel. That song is called The Necromancer.
Posted by John @ 2001 Jun 10 05:24 AM EST
I know I'm kind'a late on this thing, but there is a pronuciations guide in the appandixes, and it would be best to read that first, before, going further(though you have of course already done that), since I know of people who pronounced the same word wrong for more than 5000 pages!
Posted by Turin @ 2001 Jun 12 09:47 AM EST
OK, can I say something here. the runes were elf-runes and we don't see dwarf-runes till moria. the writing is the black tounge(i think thats how you spell it). i never really even looked at the pronunciation guides and i don't think that they help. i think he should have included like those little pronunciation thingees after hard words. if you know how to spell tounge i'd really like to know. i you think i'm just stupid, i'd also like to know.
SAM RULES! SACKVILLE-BAGGINS STINK!
(i'm a christian, so i can't cuss)
Posted by Vikki @ 2001 Jun 13 03:14 PM EST
The dwarves used Elven ruins. They never developed their owen style of writing.
Posted by J'nae Rae Campbell @ 2001 Jun 13 04:29 PM EST
Oops, runes not ruins. The writing on the doors of Moria were in the Elven script known as the Tengwa the same as was used in the ring only on the doors Sindarin(one of two Elven languages) was used. The runes to mark Balin's tomb were Daeron's Runes. Daeron was Sinda.
Posted by J'nae Rae Campbell @ 2001 Jun 13 04:38 PM EST
Oh. never mind then. see what i meant when i said i was stupid.
ha. you can't spell either!
Posted by vikki @ 2001 Jun 27 12:56 PM EST
Sam is probably my favorite character in the series. He's a believer, a dreamer, a devoted friend. You expect him to be so plodding and ordinary, but the farther in you read the more you realize Sam is the "hidden" Hero of LOTR.
I was thrilled to hear that Sean Astin had been cast as Sam in the movie. Fans of the film "The Goonies" will understand why--Mikey is the believer, the dreamer (although more like Frodo in that he's the leader) who no one takes that seriously at first.
Posted by constance @ 2001 Jul 02 10:25 AM EST
This is way too late to be posting this, but I can't help myself:
We know from the beginning that Sam is something special. Tolkien foreshadows it in a line (I believe in this chapter) "There was more on his mind than gardening."
Posted by GEM @ 2001 Jul 05 02:15 AM EST
One of the things that strikes me dumbfounded about TLOR is that Tolkien didn't just make up some jibberish and call it a language (the way other fantasy authors do). HE REALLY MADE A LANGUAGE! In fact, I think he made two or three, complete with pronunciation, syntax and alphabet. You can try to translate the runes from this chapter and you will get the Mordor translation of "One Ring to Rule them all ...", "Ash nazg gimbatur..."
Posted by Kenshin @ 2001 Jul 24 04:39 AM EST
Bob Kanefsky has a LOTR filk called "Hobbit of the Brandywine", TTTO "Blacksmith of the Brandywine". I don't know if it's available on tape, but it's in one of his songbooks.
Also, a related item: Tolkien's poem "Stone Troll" (which is not in LOTR but can be found in collections of his shorter works) can be sung TTTO the traditional folk song "The Fox", and in fact was very clearly written for that tune.
Posted by Celine @ 2001 Aug 05 07:21 PM EST
