I'm beginning to like Pippin. He has quite the independent streak, and I like his spunky irreverence:
I'm glad Pippin was allowed to join the Company going South. A pity about Gandalf deciding to go (with his doom-and-gloom personality), but I suppose having a wizard around could be handy.
By the way, I've noticed that LOTR's plot sounds an awful lot like "The Sword of Shannara" by Terry Brooks, which I read ages ago. I'll bet the Tolkienites frothed at the mouth about that.
I'm glad that Bill The Pony is going along...I quite like him. Reminds me a lot of Eeyore. If anything bad happens to Bill, I'm going to be upset.
Creepy atmosphere! You -know- something bad is coming up when it's Too Quiet. ("Do you hear that?" "Hear what?" "Exactly.") And the evil black crow spies are wonderfully sinister. This could be a good movie scene.
Hey...there've been a few crows hanging around our cottage recently (!!). Hmmm....
I notice Borodin called Frodo a "halfling". I'm sure this term was used early in the book. Is this just another word for "hobbit"?
Anyway, I was immensely relieved to find more plot than exposition in this chapter, though I still find that the lengthy "wandering over hill and dale" descriptions bog down the suspense and plot development. I wouldn't mind it so much if the lack of plot was clear from the beginning (like in the Gormenghast series of books...I love all the descriptive text there, but I know some hate it).
Replies: 43 comments
Yes, halfling is a term used by some (Men) to refer to Hobbits.
What do you mean a pity about Gandalf going?? I remember being particularly relieved! It's nice having a wizard around when/if things go wrong, don't you think?
Posted by Luisa @ 2001 May 13 08:57 PM EST
Debbie, dear, you should call it by the proper name: The Shameless Tolkien Rip-Off of Shannara (although Terry Brooks missed a real golden opportunity to bring in the long-lost son of Allanon, Alateen)
Posted by Dave Weingart @ 2001 May 14 11:42 AM EST
Right on, Dave. I read The Sword of Shannara about a year after I read LOTR back in the late 70's and I was so outraged at the blatant rip-off that I didn't touch a Brooks book again until Lucas tapped him to write the Star Wars: Ep. 1 novelization two years back. It was a disappointment, too, but to be fair, that wasn't completely Brooks' fault...
Just a comment, too, on the "too much wandering over hill and dale" issue. To me, this just seems so integral to a quest tale and I find I quite enjoy it. Frodo has now travelled halfway across the northern part of Middle Earth, from Hobbiton to Bree to Rivendell and on into Moria. I think there should be some sense of the distance involved, the hardships of the travel, the contrast in the geography, even if just to set the pleasant ramblings in The Shire from some of the dark roads to come. The journey is much of the purpose of the story. I think it's worth savouring the different settings and the characters' interaction with the landscapes they come across.
Posted by Allison @ 2001 May 14 12:09 PM EST
Heh. We used to call it "The Sword of Sha-na-na".
I still have a copy of the book in my collection. Whenever I'm feeling particularly useless as a writer, I go and pull it down from the shelf, open it to a random spot, and read a few pages. And I feel better.
Rob
Posted by Rob Wynne @ 2001 May 15 12:16 AM EST
Hmmmm..... seems my liking the first few Shannara books puts me in a miority of one.... I went off them when they got into the relams of "The King's Aunt's Cat's Cousin's Pickle-jar... etc.etc.etc of Shannara"
Posted by Teddy @ 2001 May 15 06:44 AM EST
Mark my words. You wil start to appreciate Gandalf soon. He's just got this big feeling of responsibility he carries around.
Posted by Martijn @ 2001 May 16 08:21 AM EST
I don't consider Gandalf to be "doom and gloom", more ancient serious wisdom. Pretty mysterious, and very reassuring to have. I consider him a father figure of the fellowship, in a way, because they all look to him to take care of them, and only he knows exactly (or more than anyone else) what is going on, and how to get through sticky spots.
Posted by Fatty Lumpkin @ 2001 May 16 10:02 AM EST
The Sword of Shannara is the ONLY book I have ever physically thrown across a room. (It pains me as a librarian to admit that I've ever treated a book this way...)
Posted by Janet Croft @ 2001 May 16 10:13 AM EST
John's few chapters behind you now and he's gotten really taken by Bill the Pony, too :). He's asking me if Bill's going to be continuing for the rest of the journey with Sam. Um, well, I said... just keep reading!
Posted by Allison @ 2001 May 16 10:29 AM EST
Shannara slagging for fun and profit. What gives with this kick from enraged *Tolkien* officianados? How exactly is *similar* a rip off? Yes, group of adventurers. Yes, artifact of power. Yes, Magic and stuff. Given these conditions we may as well condemn 75% modern fantasists as the self-same rip-off artists. The *circumstances* in Shannara are miles away from the Lord of the Rings...the characters are vastly different, the cultures bear no resemblance to Tolkiens, and even the main characters Shea and Flick (yes I am a fantasy geek) diverge in very large ways from LotR. I've always thought of Shannara as a lesser 'Erol Flynn's Robin Hood' flavour of modern fantasy but cannot understand the dismissive, 'ripoff' label.
Posted by Paul H @ 2001 May 16 10:57 AM EST
Yes, since the hobbits are a tad larger than 3 feet high, they would look half the size of a man, thus: "halfling".
Posted by Tinuviel @ 2001 May 16 01:56 PM EST
Paul H: Actually, I didn't say it was a rip-off. I just said it was an awful book. Which, in retrospect, it is. :)
*tweak*
Rob
Posted by Rob Wynne @ 2001 May 16 03:08 PM EST
Yes, Sword of Shannara WAS a blatant and obvious ripoff of Lord of the Rings like no other book I've read, but the rest of the books in the Shannara series did get a lot more original.
Posted by Breeze @ 2001 May 16 03:15 PM EST
I liked the Shannara books. Just because they've got a similiar theme to LOTR doesn't mean they're bad. I really liked the second one, the Elfstones of Shannara, it really brings out the concept of sacrificing yourself for others.
Posted by Juleen @ 2001 May 16 03:19 PM EST
Hey Rob,
I guess we all have shades of awful to contend with. I reserve one of my 'pangs of awfulness' awards to Diana Paxson's 'Brisingamen', one of the few books I've ever tried to keep plowing through even after my eyeballs got numb from screaming for mercy. I guess I always found the first Shannara book 'adequate' at an age when I was less critical of stylistic merits. But, unlike other posters have claimed, I never saw it as such a blatant rip-off. I'm puzzled by that considering that I know people (foolish people I'll grant you) who dismiss Tolkien as simply having lifted the required elements of Germanic and Anglo-Saxon mythology for his story...little more than a 'rip-off' in their eyes.
Posted by Paul H @ 2001 May 16 09:14 PM EST
You want a Rip-off? How about "The Wheel of Time" series? The first half of the first book is an almost circumstance-for-circumstance lifting from FOTR. Simple country folk, check. Strange visitors promising adventure, check. Black-robed creepy horsemen, check.
Also, mental note: Avoid Shanarra. Got it.
Posted by Chris H. @ 2001 May 16 09:37 PM EST
I like the Shanara books. My favorite character out of all of the books is Morgan Leah, through out the tetralogy of The Scions of Shanara he figures prominently. Unfortunately epic fantasy follows a certain formula and Tolkien set the stage.
Posted by J'nae Rae Campbell @ 2001 May 16 11:35 PM EST
The "Sword of Shannara" and its multitudinous sequels, while being bad books and horrible ripoffs, are nowhere near the sheer level of plagiarism that Dennis McKiernan achieved in "The Iron Tower Trilogy" and "The Silver Call Dualogy." If you're foolish or morbid enough to read those, you will find entire passages that, except for the names, are virtually lifted verbatim from "Lord of the Rings." Sad.
Posted by Randy Hoffman @ 2001 May 18 02:56 PM EST
Any Tolkienites want to read a review of LOTR comparing it with Wheel of Time(WOT) and David Eddings' books? Check it out here:
www.sahrs.com/ashaman/tolkien.html
I am trying to write a reply to it and can use any suggestions or comments. Just e-mail me. Another webpage concerning WOT and LOTR is:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/2451/parallel.htm
This one is on parallel characters in WOT and LOTR.
I have read WOT up to the sixth book before I nearly bored myself to death. I don't know how I made it that far. Tolkien is far superior in everything.
Posted by talierin @ 2001 May 19 02:32 AM EST
Oops, try tolkien.htm at the end instead of .html (lose the "l")
Posted by Talierin @ 2001 May 19 02:35 AM EST
This is not my lucky day, I typed my email in wrong.
Posted by talierin @ 2001 May 19 12:52 PM EST
I agree with Alison about "the wandering over hill and dale" material. Savor it! It's Tolkien's exquisite detailing of the landscape and the journey through it that gives it such a realism... that helps you to enter the story so completely. Don't be in a big hurry on your way through this book. The "wanderings" are not just "filler" in between the "exciting" bits. They are integral to the story.
Posted by Tom @ 2001 Jun 01 03:07 PM EST
You want a bad book? Read "Black Trillium" by Marian Zimmer Bradley, Andre Norton, and someone else.
Actually, *don't* read it. It'll give you physical convulsions.
Also, "The Eye of Argon" by Jim Theis has been consistently voted as Worst Science Fiction Story of All Time, by whoever does that sort of thing. Search for it on the net, and be amused.
Posted by Eolanthe @ 2001 Jun 01 11:15 PM EST
The other author of "Black Trillium" is Tanith Lee. She is known for writing dark erotic fantasy. I've never read "Black Trillium" but I have read "The Tales of the Flat Earth" series, "Kill the Dead," "As Red As Blood or Tales From The Sisters Grimmer(which by the way has my all time favorite version of "Beauty and the Beast.)"
Posted by J'nae Rae Campbell @ 2001 Jun 02 01:08 PM EST
I always thought that Donaldson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant was a blantant ripoff. His vision is twisted so as to leave a sad taste after reading it. I recommend not doing so. Everything you love gets killed or destroyed it seems.
Posted by dave @ 2001 Jun 09 07:15 AM EST
I always thought that Thomas Covenant was a lousy hero. Basicly I find the "Oh you'll have to excuse me for rapeing you because my nerve endings are working again" atitude disgusting.
Posted by J'nae Rae Campbell @ 2001 Jun 09 07:51 PM EST
Yes, that's another reason not to read it. The "hero" isn't exactly one of the things you grow to love that gets destroyed.
Posted by dave @ 2001 Jun 10 10:52 PM EST
Most fantasy in the seventies and eighties was either a) a Tolkien ripoff or homage; b) a Conan ripoff or homage; or c) a D&D campaign with the serial numbers filed off.
If the book itself was not such, the cover art and blurb would try to make it appear so. I am bitter about this, as it caused me to miss reading Guy Gavriel Kay's first trilogy when I was young, impressionable, and would have enjoyed it more.
Posted by Maureen @ 2001 Jun 15 10:08 PM EST
I love Guy Gavriel Kay's work.
Posted by J'nae Rae Campbell @ 2001 Jun 16 01:03 PM EST
Guy Gavriel Kay is one of the few authors I've read who has captured the flavor of Tolkien's work -- the care that goes into the details -- yet gone off in his own direction without slavishly imitating him. I believe Kay worked with Christopher Tolkien on the Professor's notes at one time.
Tanith Lee is one of those authors, like Andre Norton and Katherine Kurtz, that I had a tremendous passion for at one time and then left behind. I'm not sure why. But Lee's got a few things that might repay rereading -- the series with Death's Master, Delusion's Master, and so on was pretty good, as I recall.
Posted by Janet Croft @ 2001 Jun 19 11:01 AM EST
>the series with Death's Master, >Delusion's Master, and so on was >pretty good, as I recall.
Janet, those are part of the five book series "Tales of the Flat Earth." "Night's Master," "Death's Master," "Delusion's Master," "Delirium's Mistress," and "Night's Sorceries" are the titles in that series.
Posted by J'nae Rae Campbell @ 2001 Jun 20 09:52 AM EST
Biggest Tolkien rip-off ever was Terry Brooks' The Sword of Shannara. Instead of Frodo and Sam, you have Shea and Flick who are sent on a quest by the wizard Allanon and joined by the ranger Menion Leah as they leave their little provincial town (whatever it was called) pursued by Skull Bearers. There's even a Mines of Moria scene. The second and third books in the original trilogy were actually pretty decent when I read them as a teenager, but I've never had the slightest urge to pick up any of the spate of prequels and sequels Brooks churned out in the '90s.
Posted by Kevin @ 2001 Jun 20 01:00 PM EST
Just scrolled to the top of the discussion and noticed that Shannara has already been thoroughly discussed! Oops. In Brooks' defense, I heard somewhere that his book was the first one to wobbily follow in the master's footsteps, not to mention his own first book as a writer. But then, crap is crap.
I will never forget the worst dialog I've ever seen this side of Josef Conrad--either Flick or Shea says to Menion (what awful names) "Cease your attempts to bait my brother into anger!"
Posted by Kevin @ 2001 Jun 20 01:08 PM EST
Speaking of other books which are great, I still like Mary Stewart's Merlin series and Jean Auel's books - although the Plains of Passage has a lot of cut and paste passion scenes.
Posted by dave @ 2001 Jun 21 08:52 PM EST
Anyone else noted that every one of the Shannara books seems to be the same damn plot with new character names, a new "elf power" and the evil thing has a new name? Well done Brooks. You wrote a crappy book and cloned it at least 3 to 4 times.
Much like David Eddings did with his Belgariad and Mallorean series.
Posted by Chris @ 2001 Jun 28 09:48 PM EST
Gandalf's got a right to be gloomy (although that's not a word I would have used... solemn works a bit better, but there are plenty). Maybe if the previous chapter hadn't been so difficult for you you'd understand him a bit better. Also, you get to love him (and look for him desperately in sticky situations) if you read The Hobbit.
Posted by GEM @ 2001 Jul 05 03:00 AM EST
Forgive me for beating a dead horse, but there is an even more blatant LOTR ripoff than Sword of Shannara - the Iron Tower trilogy (Dark Tide, Shadows of Doom & Darkest Day) by Dennis McKiernan. These books even create a hobbit-like race of small, peace-loving people forced to fight. I admit to having read them in my youth when I couldn't quite make it through LOTR. Now that I'm older (if not wiser), I understand that Tolkien's prose is far superior and everything I liked about the Iron Tower was because it was copied from LOTR!
Bill
Posted by Bill Newberry @ 2001 Jul 11 03:41 PM EST
Forgive me for beating a dead horse, but there is an even more blatant LOTR ripoff than Sword of Shannara - the Iron Tower trilogy (Dark Tide, Shadows of Doom & Darkest Day) by Dennis McKiernan. These books even create a hobbit-like race of small, peace-loving people forced to fight. I admit to having read them in my youth when I couldn't quite make it through LOTR. Now that I'm older (if not wiser), I understand that Tolkien's prose is far superior and everything I liked about the Iron Tower was because it was copied from LOTR!
Bill
Posted by Bill Newberry @ 2001 Jul 11 03:41 PM EST
Forgive me for beating a dead horse, but there is an even more blatant LOTR ripoff than Sword of Shannara - the Iron Tower trilogy (Dark Tide, Shadows of Doom & Darkest Day) by Dennis McKiernan. These books even create a hobbit-like race of small, peace-loving people forced to fight. I admit to having read them in my youth when I couldn't quite make it through LOTR. Now that I'm older (if not wiser), I understand that Tolkien's prose is far superior and everything I liked about the Iron Tower was because it was copied from LOTR!
Bill
Posted by Bill Newberry @ 2001 Jul 11 03:41 PM EST
Sorry for the duplicate posts; I thought the computer locked up and sent it 3x :(
Posted by Bill Newberry @ 2001 Jul 11 03:44 PM EST
the sword of shanarra was cool, though the climax was sortof cheesy. i mean, a sword that reveiled a denied truth, in this case death
the second book was okay, but there was just to much death and carnage desribed. only two characters that you actually spent more than a chapter with, accually was desribed as dying. in the next book like 7 people that you got to see in more than one chapter died, including a character that you get attached to (that elf king).
plus, elves weren't immortal, and there weren't any orcs or hobbits in the shannara books, and there were no gnomes in lotr.
Posted by vikki @ 2001 Jul 29 05:22 PM EST
Yes, one more comment about Shannara. I was in college when it came out, and had it recommended to me as "very much like LOTR." Now, if you haven't already done so, go read my previous comment about my initial reading of LOTR, posted after the Council of Elrond chapter.
I tried to read Sword of Shannara.
I fell asleep.
'Nuff said.
Posted by Celine @ 2001 Aug 05 08:37 PM EST
I was given Shannara and LotR by the same person when I was about ten and loved them both, but when I finally got my books back from being packed up and it's been ten years now, I re-read both Shannara and LotR... well, I couldn't even read Shannara anymore and just skipped to my old favorite parts from back then. I'm still re-reading LoTR again and again. It's funny how your perspective changes...
Posted by Swiftgold @ 2001 Aug 16 02:51 PM EST
