Cool that drinking the Ents' water has changed Pippin and Merry. I really like this sort of interesting detail which, while not contributing directly to the plot, enhances the overall story.
Forgot to mention earlier...I also like the hobbits' preoccupation with and appreciation of good food. :-)
Amusing to see Gimli bonding with Merry and Pippin through tobacco. Does anyone know if Tolkien was a smoker? I assumed he was.
The Huorns sound interesting. Intriguing that Merry would think they could be dangerous if there weren't any true Ents to look after them.
Liked the Ents even more in this chapter, especially the fact that altho they are basically peaceful and slow-moving, if riled up enough (especially in the face of extreme injustice) they are a formidable enemy.
Wormtongue is certainly the slimey sort, isn't he, going running bad to Saruman. If something bad -doesn't- end up happening to him, I'm going to be upset.
Saruman doesn't seem so impressive in this chapter compared to the Ents. I'm still holding my breath, though. I also can't help but notice that the next chapter is called "Voice of Saruman".
Interesting that Theoden and several others in the story had never heard of hobbits until they met Frodo, Merry and Pippin.
Replies: 13 comments
Yes, Tolkien smoked. He, C.S. Lewis, Charles Williams, and other people associated with the Inklings would meet regularly at a pub to smoke and drink and talk and critique; except for the themes and quality of the discussions, you might have mistaken them for any other academic bull-session group.
The fates of Wormtongue and Saruman are very interesting. As Forrest Gump would declare, "And that's all I have to say about that."
It's very interesting to me that there is no shortage of inns in Middle-Earth, and apparently no shortage of travelers, but most inhabitants of Middle-Earth at the time of LOTR (except the elves and dwarves) nevertheless never seem to leave the boundaries of their homelands, and thus many of them often seem curiously uninformed about people and things that aren't all that far away. Hobbits don't leave the Shire; Breefolk don't leave Breeland; Tom doesn't leave his country; the Noldor don't leave Lorien; the Ents don't leave Fangorn; the Riders don't leave Rohan; etc., etc. This may be a mirror of the situation that prevailed in Europe during the Middle Ages, but still -- there are enough knowledgable people moving around Middle-Earth that I would think that geographic and social knowledge would be better than Tolkien prtrays it. In particular, one note of character ignorance that particularly strikes me wrong is the fact that up until the hunt for Merry and Pippin, Aragorn had no idea that Ents are real, and Legolas didn't know there were any still living. Give me a break!
Posted by Randy Hoffman @ 2001 May 22 12:53 PM EST
Haha! I'm first!
LOL Debbie! Great Gandalf Comic! (but grey first, then white--sorry!)
I had sort of forgotten about this chapter since my last read. Maybe because it's surrounded by so many events. But I really enjoyed it this time through. Keep on keepin' on!
I don't know for sure, but I think it's safe to say Tolkien was a smoker. I mean, he's got a pipe in every picture I've ever seen of him.
Sure Grima's a bad seed, but at the perilous risk of overusing this tolkien cliche, as Gandalf said "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?"
Posted by Phil @ 2001 May 22 01:03 PM EST
Drat, Randy just beat me!
Posted by Phil @ 2001 May 22 01:04 PM EST
I assume you caught the fact that, not only did Saruman have pipe weed, but that it came from The Shire. As Aragorn commented, that seems strange - and also may not bode well for some Shire residents - but I won't get too spoilery - just remember there is a connection between Isengard and The Shire.
Posted by Charly @ 2001 May 22 01:20 PM EST
oops, thanks for pointing out my gaffe re: Gandalf cartoon, Phil! I've fixed it. :-)
Posted by Debbie @ 2001 May 22 01:53 PM EST
Check out the Tolkein Virgins Book Club at http://www.threewayaction.com/ubb/Forum30/HTML/000028.html :->
Posted by Eloise @ 2001 May 22 04:51 PM EST
Would people PLEASE stop trying to give hints? When Debbie gets to the point you want to talk about, THEN you discuss if she noted this or that...
Tolkien wrote his story very well so that you wouldn't need any additional hinting to enjoy it, so hints can only spoil things...
...loving the site Debbie.
Posted by Aranha @ 2001 May 22 05:05 PM EST
I have to agree with Aranha.
I've always believed that people have a right to do what they want--so long as it does not interfere with the rights of others, in this case, Debbie's right to enjoy the book unspoiled just as (I assume) we did. Wonderful comments all around but the hints are getting a bit too bold as Debbie gets deeper into the story (which is understandable since it all gets more exciting as we follow along).
Wonderful site Debbie. Looking forward to your next post. :)
Posted by McDowalj @ 2001 May 22 05:18 PM EST
I do have to make one tangential comment...I read LOTR as a child, and after training as an animal tracker/herbalist/naturalist for a few years, I came back to read the LOTR.
Wow.
Completely new book. What I skipped over before as "landscape drivel" suddenly came alive...how the ecology and home landscape of every character has shaped and sculpted them. Just like in the real world. And the land itself speaks constantly of its experience, hopes, dreams.
Middle-Earth really exists as a separate (though inseparable) main character. Reading Tolkien's essays, I found out how much he loved nature, and without a doubt it shows in his books.
It amazes me how as I grow and mature, so does my experience with LOTR.
Posted by Willem @ 2001 May 22 05:55 PM EST
Randy, I disagree. I don't find it strange that Aragorn didn't know that Ents were real or that Legolas didn't know that they were still alive. Aragorn wandered in an other region of middle-earth than the Ents. Even when he was east of the mountains, he hadn't any cause to go into Fangorn. Just because he's heard stories of the Eldar days doesn't mean he believed everything was real. As for Legolas, he has spent his life in Mirkwood and as there are no Ents in any of the woods inhabited by Elves, why would he think they are still alive?
The lack of knowledge of Hobbits despite trade goods and many wise travelers, is most likely because nothing news worthy generaly happens or that travelers have had there own name for them. That coupled with the fact that people having more pressing business simply don't have time remember a race mentioned in passing that doesn't truly effect their lives.
Besides if the Noldo didn't leave Lorien, there wouldn't be any in residence at Rivendel and Frodo never would have met Gildor and his band in the Shire.
Even now there are people who have never gone more than 50 miles from where they live (that would have been nearly a days travel before cars.) People also tend to have incorrect views of places and people they have never encountered. So why in an age of primarilly verbal communication would they have so firm an understanding of their distant neighbors? When in our age of instant communication both audio, visual, and written we often know nothing of our fellow inhabitants?
As far as the frequency of Inns, there were two mentioned in the Shire, one in Bree, and one more a days ride east. That hardly qualifies as "no shortage" as most of the areas they travel are competely uninhabited by settled people.
Posted by J'nae Rae Campbell @ 2001 May 22 07:06 PM EST
So, my husband, John, just called me up and without even saying 'hello', launched into the following exchange:
John: What's with Boromir?
Allison: Huh?
John: Boromir. I don't trust him. We're just getting into Lothlorien and he's not happy there and I don't trust him. He's going to do something bad, isn't he?
Allison: Just keep reading...
John: No! No! Tell me if I'm on the right track.
Allison: Keep reading! You'll know before the end of Fellowship.
John: And where's Bill the Pony? How come he hasn't shown up over the mountains yet? Is he just going to saunter into Lothlorien on one of these pages?
Allison: You -still- thinking about Bill the Pony?
John: Of course! And I know that Gandalf can't be dead. There's no way. I bet any scene now he'll show up again and Bill the Pony will be with him and he'll say, "Look who I found on my travels, Sam!".
:D
Lord, it's great fun having two of my favorite people reading and giving me first-time feedback on LOTR at the same time :). I love it that both Debbie and John have fallen for these characters so hard after managing to avoid Tolkien as long as they did.
And while I'm here, ditto on the requests above. No more hints for Debbie, please! Let her walk the roads of Middle-Earth as wide-eyed and unknowing as the rest of us once did.
Posted by Allison @ 2001 May 22 07:26 PM EST
Randy - recall that this a medieval-technology world where very few people travel around much. Also the Ents didn't have to let themselves be seen at all if they didn't want to.
About the chapter, the description of the attack on Isengard is great. It's too bad the Ents couldn't ::zippers mouth::
Posted by Keith Fraser @ 2001 Jun 01 06:06 AM EST
There's a big difference between National Geographic expeditions and ordinary business travel. The Ents don't do business, and going into Fangorn is dangerous if you're not an ent or a woodland creature. And elves aren't going to stray too far from home in these dangerous days.
So who's gonna know?
Posted by Maureen @ 2001 Jun 15 10:44 PM EST
