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The Palantir Hey, when are we going to find out what happened to Frodo and Sam?!? Anyway, this chapter was a particularly good Pippin and Merry chapter, further rounding out their characters. I get such a kick out of the total lack of awe of the hobbits towards Gandalf. :-) Loved the following:
re: evil ball thingy. Poor, foolish Pippin! I'm glad he came out of it okay. At least I think he's okay...it's disturbing (and touching) that Gandalf is obviously concerned enough about the aftereffects to want Pippin with him when they all took off. I thought Gandalf was remarkably good about the whole thing. Yes, yes, I admit I was wrong about Gandalf. He has more humour and compassion than I originally thought. The Nazgul guy sounds really nightmarish-creepy. I'll bet the computer graphics people will have fun with that creature in the LOTR movies. I hope we go back to Frodo and Sam soon. I want to know what's happening with the Ring. Is Frodo resisting? Is he worried about his companions? Does he find out what's been happening with them? What does Sam think of all this? And most importantly, DID POOR BILL GET EATEN BY THE WOLVES???! :-) Ok, I couldn't help peeking just now, and was delighted to see Sam's name mentioned in the first paragraph of the next chapter, yay! On to Book IV...
[Previous entry: "Two Towers: BOOK III - Chapter 10"] [Next entry: "Two Towers: BOOK IV - Chapter 1"]
Replies: 18 comments
NO PEEKING!!!!!!!!!!! You have to wait and see!!!!! You should be almost done with the Merry and Pippin part, and on to Frodo and Sam soon. Posted by Talierin @ 2001 May 22 07:39 PM EST Debbie - I really enjoy this site... Found out about it off TORN as well.... Anyway - here's a picture from the movies of the Palantir (it's almost exactly how I picture it). And I believe that must be Saruman's hand. Palantir Image [ http://thesilentman.free.fr/Images/BoumboPalantir.jpg ] Posted by Mark @ 2001 May 22 08:59 PM EST The Palantir isn't in itself evil, it is a communication device. Unfortunately Souron has one of them as well and the two were tuned to each other. Posted by J'nae Rae Campbell @ 2001 May 23 01:25 AM EST
i like the idea of calling the Palantir a "communication device". it always kind of makes me associate the Palantir with on-line computers! correct me if i am wrong, but weren't the Palantiri [is that the plural?] made by the Numenoreans? viewing the Numenoreans as a people that committed hubris, and were thus punished by the Valar, i think the Palantir is wonderfully ambiguous yet bordering on evil. you remember what it leads to an yway- Posted by yiorgos @ 2001 May 23 03:14 AM EST I believe the Palantir were made by the Noldor and given to the Numenoreans, but I could be wrong. Posted by Alan Cooke @ 2001 May 23 05:18 AM EST Books III and IV take place in parallel. Both books start the day the fellowship broke. That means Pippin and Merry won't appear again for quite a while, until the narrative has caught up with everything Frodo & Sam have been upto. Posted by Robert @ 2001 May 23 06:52 AM EST A nice image of the Palantir Mark, thanks! I don't know why but I always imagined it to be larger somehow, soccer ball sized. What do you other good folk think?
Regards Posted by Gurnsy @ 2001 May 23 07:28 AM EST OK, this isn't on this chapter in particular but on commenting in general, please bear with me. PLEASE NO SPOILERS!
And yes that means you, CHARLY! I do understand that you mean well and love the books, as we all do. And many of your comments have been very interesting and the pics that you posted are also good, but please no spoilers. I would have prefered to send this to you privately but you hadn't supplied your e-mail adress. And it's not only Charly that needs to filter their comments for spoilers... Sorry folks for taking up the space. Best regards! /Martin Posted by Martin @ 2001 May 23 07:56 AM EST Martin, Point taken, though I really don't think I have given anything away. Telling her to remember something just means it is important - I haven't said what's to be done with it or who will be doing it! But if it bothers Debbie, I will refrain. Oh, and keep in mind...just kidding ;-) Posted by Charly @ 2001 May 23 08:45 AM EST
alan: oh, and for the sake of debbie [this IS her site remember?], a little background? Feanor was in fact also the creator of the Silmarils [which obviously give their name to the Silmarillion!] I won't go into much detail since i am bound to make mistakes, but my point is that, like the Silmarils, the Palantiri are inherently good. it's not though just a matter of "falling in the wrong hands". What is important is that over-indulgence in them might lead to disastrous outcomes even for the wisest individual. you should be glad that pippin got out of this ok because it is not as simple a matter as it seems. Posted by yiorgos @ 2001 May 23 09:04 AM EST I'd always pictured the palantir to be about the size it is in the picture. I think I actually remember wondering how big it really *was* supposed to be (while reading alone), and re-read all the passages about it before moving onto the next chapter. I somehow decided it must be about the size of a candlepin bowling ball or one of those "magic 8 balls" we had as kids. I think partially because Gandalf keeps it in his robes for awhile, anything too big and heavy wouldn't be easily carried in one's clothing. Yet is couldn't be too small, either, to be able to view things well and especially as something of significance and importance, I just knew it wouldn't be as small as a tennis ball, for instance, or any smaller. I also got the feeling that it was thrown out the window with one hand, not heaved with two (don't know why) so I figured it would have to be just small enough to grasp and throw that way. I don't have my books handy but there may have been other clues I picked up on, too. Posted by Fatty Lumpkin @ 2001 May 23 09:10 AM EST Good point from Fatty Lumpkin about the Palantir fitting into Gandalf's robes. I can't have been -that- big then.
Thanks :)
Regards Posted by Gurnsy @ 2001 May 23 11:20 AM EST Hey all! Palantitir facts. In unfinished Tales of Numenor and Middle Earth, Tolkien describes the Palantiri as "perfect spheres, appearing at rest to be made of solid glass or crystal and deep black in hue. At the smallest they were about a foot in diameter, but some, certainly the Stones of Osgiliath and Amon Sul, were much larger and could not be lifted by one man... they were indeed unbreakable by any violence then controlled by men." I was surprised by this when I first read it since I always thought of the palantir as the size of a cantelope or large grapefruit. But I did visualise Wormtongue dropping it with two hands from Orthanc, but maybe that's because envisioned him as a small bent little man. HOWEVER... In UT Tolkien also states that the palantiri had "poles" and had to be oriented in a particular way in order for them to work, but this idea was later abandoned. So, maybe the stones (there were 7) could have been a bit smaller. Posted by Phil @ 2001 May 23 04:12 PM EST This was one of my favorite chapters; it is the closest you get to seeing Sauron. I've always had a thing for the bad-guy. Posted by Michael Lukas @ 2001 May 31 11:32 PM EST About Gandalf (or Olórin, his Maia name). Gandalf is in fact a Maia (named Olórin). The Maiar are spirits, whose being began before the World, and that are of the same order of the Valar, who shaped the earth, but of less degree. A little Silmarillion quote: "Wisest of the Maiar was Olórin. He too dwelt in Lórien, but his ways took him often to the house of Nienna, and of her he learned pity and patience." With this, it's nice to know that Nienna in fact was a Valar. Another quote: "Mightier than Estë is Nienna, sister of the Fëanturi; she dwells alone. She is acquainted with grief, and mourns for every wound that Arda (Earth) has suffered in the marring of Melkor. (Morgoth; once Saurons master) So great was her sorrow, as the Music unfolded, that her song turned to lamentation long before its end, and the sound of mourning was woven into the themes of the world before it began. But she does not weep for herself; and those who harken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope. Her halls are west of West, upon th eborders of the world; and she comes seldom to the city of Valimar (where the Valara live) where all is glad. She goes rather to the halls of Mandos, which are near to her own; and all those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom. The windows of her house look outward from the walls of the world." Posted by Martijn @ 2001 Jun 01 03:44 AM EST p.s. The music Tolkien refers to here, is the music composed by Eru (or Ilúvatar), which was then sung by the Ainur (Valar and Maiar), and created a vision that was Arda. Melkor (Morgoth) strove to invent his own ideas and wove these into the themes created by Ilúvatar, and thereby distorted the music and the vision. Then Ilúvatar made the vision reality and the Valar went into the Earth to shape and build it to the likeness of the vision of Ilúvatar. Melkor only strived to undo what was made... Great Mythology... If you're willing to put up with some more dru material. Posted by Martijn @ 2001 Jun 01 03:51 AM EST J'nae is right - the Palantiri are not in themselves evil. They're just tools. They were actually made by the creator of the Silmarils, Feanor. Posted by Keith Fraser @ 2001 Jun 01 06:11 AM EST Michael's 'thing for the bad guy' - haven't we all? That was one thing I liked about The Silmarillion and the Lays of Beleriand; getting to see Sauron and Morgoth up close and personal (albeit at one point getting trounced by Luthien). Of course the risk with seeing too much of the bad guy, is that you get to like him (e.g. Milton's Satan), so Tolkien was perhaps wise to keep Sauron largely off-stage as an ominous rumble, and let us see the evil that ordinary folk are capable of as well as the conventionally powerful. On a tangent, the thing that impressed me most about Lewis's The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe is the way he manges to have the White Witch on-stage a lot, and make her seduction of Edmund very plausible, while keeping her scary and evil. Posted by Catherine @ 2001 Jun 04 11:25 AM EST
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