The Passage of the Marshes

New comic strip online! Waiting For Frodo. I'll be continuing this particular strip until the first movie is released. Perhaps longer, We'll see.

Gollum still hasn't betrayed Sam and Frodo, but I'm still waiting. Interesting that he can't eat lembas. I don't even what Gollum did end up eating, coming back with all that black mud over his face and fingers, ugh.

I didn't like the following sentence:


The hobbits were now wholly in the hands of Gollum.


ACK! That doesn't sound good. What if he's leading them into a trap? How can they possibly trust him?

The Dead Marshes sound pretty gruesome, especially the dead faces in the water. I wonder what they'll do with this scene in the movie? Could be pretty frightening. I'm a wimp with horror movies, as you might be able to tell.

Did the Nazgul see them when it flew by? That seems to be the case, judging from Gollum's wailing about the "wraiths on wings" telling their master everything they've seen.

Gollum's conversation with himself was disturbing; he's obviously wrestling with the decision of whether to betray the hobbits or not. Frankly, I'm amazed he's held out this long. Like Sam, I'm highly curious about who "She" was:

[from Gollum's conversation with himself]

'We wants it! But' - and here there was a long pause, as if a new thought had wakened. 'Not yet, eh? perhaps not. She might help. She might, yes.'

'No, no! Not that way!' wailed Smeagol.

'Yes! We wants it! We wants it!'


Hm. Doesn't sound good. Sounds like Gollum has made his decision. But when will he betray them, and how? Must keep reading...

[Previous entry: "Two Towers: BOOK IV - Chapter 1"] [Next entry: "Two Towers: BOOK IV - Chapter 3"]

Posted by Nathan @ 2001 May 23 08:45 AM EST

she? well- *slaps himself*

remember, no spoilers. you will find out for yourself, and i have a feeling that you will like it ;)

Posted by yiorgos @ 2001 May 23 09:08 AM EST

Tolkien commented once that the Dead Marshes were heavily influenced by his experiences in the trenches in World War I, when he served as a signalling officer for about four months during the Battle of the Somme before succumbing to trench fever and spending the rest of the war in and out of military hospitals. The unburied bodies in the mud of no-man's land were particularly horrific, and you can see where the hobbits' reaction of pity and terror must be coming from.

Posted by Janet Croft @ 2001 May 23 09:36 AM EST

Ahh Debbie. Tolkien supplies some back history to Gollum in several places in his books. If your questions are still unsated at the end of the 'Rings' then you could try some of the drier works in the books published by Christopher Tolkien where his father's writing and literary developments are examined.

Some people can't read these books (you've already seen the "Love Silmarillon/Hate it" camp, and similar camps exist for much of the other work), for myself I found them to be a deep insight into the workings of a man who cared so much for the things that he wrote, that he did not feel that they were ready to publish. Even in the rougher, and at time studious form that Christopher presents the material, I love them. The Book of Lost Tales I and II, Unfinshed Tales, The Lost Road, the mighty
History of Middle-Earth volumes are all great reads. Not novels...just great reads.

Gollum/Smeagol and the "we he/wont he" almost perpetual question is just fantasic. And if you still have some lingering doubts about why Sam is so devoted to Frodo then the next couple of chapters should be of great interest to you.

Gollum's reaction to the Nuzgul has a lot of history there...again if you aren't sated by the end of the book try some of the other works.

I didn't get a chance to answer the question you posed earlier about the first copy of the LOTR that people read. I still have mine (in fact I have never allowed a Tolkien
book that I have purchased to ever be thrown away). My first books are an Unwin and Allen three book boxed set published in 1971, along with a single trade paperback of the Hobbit 1972. This has be augmented with a trade paperback boxed set of Farmer Giles of Ham, Smith of Wooton Major, Leaf by Niggle (which I just love), Unfinished Tables, The Book of Lost Tales I and II, The Lost Road, The entire History of Middle-Earth, the illustrated Silmarillion, A Tolkien Bestiary, The A-Z of Tolkien, The Atlas of Middle-Earth, David Day's books, numerous Tolkien quizz books, Tengwar/Quenya translations, dictionaries, calendars, maps, original sculptures, paintings, glassware...yeah OK I admit it I'm a fan.

Be careful this could happen to you too.

TTFN

Posted by Rallas @ 2001 May 23 09:53 AM EST

Howdy all, just a quick (sorry long) point about P.J. & Horror scences. IMHO Pj is not a horror movie director. Call it comedy but not horror. His movie credits to date are Bad Taste, Brain Dead (called something else outside of Aus & NZ I think), Meet the Feebles, Heavenly Creatures & The frightners. Not to mention Forgotten silver (Which I havent seen, but is some sort of a false docco on NZ film industry history). Firstly a horror movie is something like A Nightmare on Elm street (which I shat myself with the first time I watched it). Pj's first two movies BT & BD were done on an extrememly small budget. Both are very, very, very...... very bad by hollywood standards. The first tells of some aliens which come to Earth to get the ingredients for the new taste sensation being sold in their new space resturant chain. the ingredient being human brains. The second is about a disease which turns people into zombies. Both of these movies remind me of those return of the living dead (or evil dead, I can never remember) movies when the guy runs around hacking up zombies with a chainsaw. If you get scared by them or call em horror you must be nuts. The are very poorly made movies, but very funny because they try to be extreme & not serious for a scare (AKA nightmare on elm street, halloween, friday the 13th Part 1) His 3rd movie Meet the feebles is basically the muppets (kermit the frog, fuzzy bear) meets drugs, sex, porn or basically anything outrageously illegal. Once again, very funny. His fourth movie Heavenly creatures is a serious movie. Very serious, very accurate (apparently) & done magnificently. It actually had a budget spent on it & maybe some of the special effects show the beginnnings of the company WETA. It tells the story of some NZ girls who become good chums & plot to kill one of their mums trying to keep them apart (true story). Once again this is not a horror movie, but it does give you chills down the bone (it is that good, kate winslet screaming in the start. ahhhh). Forgotten silver & the frightners I havent seen, but I am sure some of you have seen or heard of the frightners (MJ Fox) & would not call it a horror either.

So all in all Calling PJ a horror movie maker is worse than calling Stephen King a horror writer. Sure SK wrote some scarry books, but I would bet over half of them aren't. PJ however I would say has not made one horror movie. Oh yeah another good example. Would you call the 2nd half od From Dusk to Dawn Horror. If your answer is yes then you are very easily scared. If you laughed your butt off or thought it was stupid, then that I believe is more accurate. That is what PJ's first two films are like (those are the ones that people believe are horrors)

As for PJ & the dead marshes, well he will do a fantastic job he is a brilliant man (you have gotta see Heavenly creatures to see glimpses of this, it is brilliant). But I don't think he will be able to draw form any horror scences he has done b4. LOTR will be unlike anything you have ever seen b4. A real work of art (& heart) that has not been seen in hollywood in ages.

Check out PJ's work & draw your own conclusions, but beware, the only movie which will show glimpses of his genius (in the same movie making genre as LOTR) is heavenly creatures, the others well, you gotta be the right person to like em (my friends hate em they are that bad). Just dont expect to much. Well thats my 2 cents worth, I have now written more that Debbie.

P.S. new rules. No more spoilers. No discussion at all about upcomming events. Only discuss past events & peoples already encountered. Dont even briefly mention them. Even somthing as simple as when debbie mentions "she" & was replied to with " you will find out for yourself, and i have a feeling that you will like it ;) " annoys me. Although debbie is curious I am sure she doesn't even need this said. Let her forget it & get a surprise later on otherwise she will keep reading going 'when is "she" going to happen'. Especially when its not that big or important part of the book.

Anyway debbie, your site, I'll give the floor back to you. Cheers

Posted by Fatwilbur @ 2001 May 23 11:27 AM EST

Can't you read any faster Deb? Sorry I'm just getting twitchy waiting for new chapter reviews.

Gollum's strugle is not so much weather to betray Frodo but a battle between his two scitsofrenic (spelling) personalities, Gollum and Smeagol. Gollum will do anything to get back his precious and Smeagol is ........That's all I will say for now.

Posted by Big Mike @ 2001 May 23 11:37 AM EST

In all of the past two chapters' discussion of Gollum's backstory, I'm surprised that people have mentioned everything BUT the story of Smeagol and his finding of the Ring that Gandalf related during the Council of Elrond. That section contains just about all of the information we're ever given -- or, for that matter, that we really need to know -- about Gollum's early history.

Debbie: I like the new comic, but the first panel is missing the word "Rings" (it currently says "...Lord of the start").

Posted by Randy Hoffman @ 2001 May 23 12:51 PM EST

Was I that unclear in my message on the previous page? Anyway Debbie, what I meant to say was that Gandalf related Smeagols story to Frodo in Book 1: chapter 2, and then we learned some more in Book 2: chapter 2 (Elronds Council). You can go back there an refreshen your memory, if you want. I remember you didnīt like the Council very much then. It might seem more interesting if you look back on it now...

Posted by Katarina @ 2001 May 23 02:14 PM EST

I love this site! Your comments are so great Debbie! I think you may be hooked. You're also catching up to me in book IV!

Ah, if only it was socially acceptable to act like your comic character.

Where am I from? Halifax NS
Here's my tolkien spheel.
I am a long time fan of Tolkien and tend to go through bouts of tolkien fever. Every now and then I get the itch to read LOTR. Most recently in mid april I had nothing better to do (ahem, studying for 3rd year finals) and I decided to read the Silmarillion. I absolutely loved it! It gave Middle Earth even more depth and made it so much more vast and wonderful. I was exhasuted after reading "of Beren and Luthien". After finishing up with my seemingly unimportant business I decided to read Unfinished Tales. "Great", I said, "now lets do the Hobbit to prep for LOTR reading #5, just to get every connection possible." So here I am. My first post Sil reading of LOTR has been wonderful. I have found that I can understand and fully appreciate the songs and poems in LOTR.

I succumbed to all this book talk and went and bought "Tales from the Perilous Realm" (includes Farmer Giles of Ham, Leaf by Niggle, Smith of Wooton Major, and the Adventures of Tom Bombadil) today along with the cassette of Tolkien reading excerpts from The Hobbit and FOTR. I can't wait!
I was so tempted by the other wonderful illustrated editions of the Sil the Hobbit and LOTR. *sigh*

Allison--the green cased Hobbit I have is also published by Houghton Mifflin Co., if that helps at all.

Rallas -- Ah! Someone who has the Complete HoME! I have been dying to lay may hands on a complete set since I finished the Sil, but I wanted to find a set of uniform eds. Do you know if these are available? and would you recommend the HoME to me based on my reacitons to the Sil?

Posted by Phil @ 2001 May 23 05:15 PM EST

I know how you feel, Phil. I fear a trip to my local bookstore is in the cards for me this weekend, too. Time to get "The Hobbit" again and a bunch of other Tolkien poetry and story collections, too. John barely resisted buying a Tolkien map book last weekend because he feared spoilers. Perhaps I'll have to buy it and keep it away from him for awhile :). Deb, it's your fault we're all going to be poor...

By the way, Deb is back in Toronto from her cottage up north now and we're getting together for dinner tomorrow night. I thought the two of us could get sloshed on wine and then I'd tell her all the highlights of Book 4. You guys don't mind, eh? ;)

As if... :)

Posted by Allison @ 2001 May 23 05:39 PM EST

That's ok, Allison...at the rate Debbie's going right now, she'll be doen with Book IV by then. :)

Go, Debbie, Go!

Rob

Posted by Rob Wynne @ 2001 May 23 07:21 PM EST

You realize, all you people who are pushing Deb through the books so quickly, that we're all going to feel sad and sorry when she finally gets to the end of Book 6 :).

And you're right, Rob, maybe it's the highlights to Book 5 I should be giving Debbie tomorrow night :). Actually, the two of us are going to see "Shrek". Trade in one fantasy world for another for the night. (I've already seen it and it's good enough that I don't mind at all seeing it again)

Posted by Allison @ 2001 May 23 07:53 PM EST

I have got to read HoME sometime! I keep putting it off! I was going to read it last November or so, but my friend insisted that I read WOT. Don't ask me why I ever did. Painful, painful books. Anyway, I think I'll get HoME from the library after I finish RofK and two other books.

Posted by Talierin @ 2001 May 24 12:13 PM EST

PJ's "The Frighteners" has scary elements, but it is more what I would call comedic horror. But he did the frightening/scary/horror bits *very* well!

Posted by Katherine @ 2001 Jun 01 12:24 PM EST

Re:HoME - I'm currently on Book 5 and am totally engrossed in it. I started back into my current Tolkien kick when I first heard about the movie coming out (back in 1999). I read the Silmarillion for the third time (I have a first edition Allen & Unwin copy I bought as a teenager) then I discovered Abe Books (abebooks.com). I eventually acquired hard back editions (all in good condition or better) of Unfinished Tales, Letters of JRRT, Biography and all of Home.

Don't expect any of these to read like the LoTR. They are not novels! They are all scholarly works about Tolkien and his creations. If that sort of thing fascinates you (as it does me) then I strongly recommend them.

I would have to say that having read the H/LoTR, then Silmarillion, then H/LoTR, then UT and the rest has made each reading of (and about, like here) the H/LoTR that much more rewarding. (Like the story behind the Dead Marshes wrt the Last Alliance of Elves and Men).

Stirring stuff.

Posted by Lindo @ 2001 Jun 01 01:28 PM EST