Revealing that Frodo calls Gollum by his original name, Smeagol, while Sam continues to refer to him as Gollum. The little ratfink did betray them after all! Okay, so I knew he was going to, but I did harbour a secret hope that he would resist at the very end because of his compassion for Frodo.
And so we find out what 'SHE' is!!! (shudder) The computer graphics people are going to have a field day with Shelob, aren't they?
Pretty tense scene when Gollum attacked Sam. Good thing for Sam that Gollum wanted to gloat a bit before killing him.
BUT AUUUUGH, what's happened to Frodo??!! Just when I was starting to really like the guy! This just isn't fair.
Replies: 19 comments
Keep reading. I find myself unable to put the book down durring this part of the story. I am looking forward to your comments for the next chapter......
Posted by Big Mike @ 2001 May 29 02:03 PM EST
This chapter always chills me. The journey through the passage so horrific! Sam really shows his true colors here, though (I pray I've got the timeline right; I don't have my copy of the book handy). My favorite Sam-moment of the books.
Posted by Nathan @ 2001 May 29 02:04 PM EST
Oh ya....I wanted to mention one of my favorite Gollum moments. When he disapears and finally returns, Sam gets quite angry and accuses Gollum of sneaking around. With Frodo asleep, Gollum gives Sam a piece of his mind, Sam feels bad and says...So where you then?
SNEAKING! says Gollum.
That is a great comic relief durring this ominous part of the story. It was a really good part of the Bashki cartoon movie.
(Sorry I don't have the book here for the direct quote) Does somebody have the passage that I'm thinking of?
Posted by Big Mike @ 2001 May 29 02:14 PM EST
I'm -so- glad you're pushing through all three of these chapters today! Holy, I never expected walking through Book 4 with you would be so intense!
Posted by Allison @ 2001 May 29 02:29 PM EST
A fun bit of back-story...
Shelob was the greatest spawn of Ungoliant, a Maiar spirit that took the form of a spider. Ungoliant and Melkor together were responsible for the destruction of the Two Trees, the trees that lit Valinor and whose light was captured in the Silmarils (which, as has been commented in the book, was the light captured by the Phial of Galadriel)
Posted by Nathan @ 2001 May 29 02:32 PM EST
Just to add a little linguistic note - in one of the languages Tolkien created for Middle Earth, the term "Cirith Ungol" simply means Spider's Pass.
Posted by Charly @ 2001 May 29 02:38 PM EST
Nathan:
you just brought this to my attention.. interesting that the light that passed down through the Ages, from the Trees of Valinor, to the Silmarils and finally to the Phial of Galadriel, the same light which Ungoliant tried to poison, should be the one that would defeat her spawn, and bring the Hobbits closer to the destruction of Sauron, the spawn of Melkor in a sense. Also, how about the parallel between the Silmarils and the Three Elven Rings? In the same way that the Silmarils passed into Air, Sea, and the Fires under Middle-Earth [at least i am definite that one ended up at the bottom of the Sea, while the other is the light of Earendil's star- i am not sure how the third one ended up in the bowels of the Earth], the Three Rings represent Fire, Water and Air, am i right? What i am getting at is, if the Phial is evoking the powers of the light of the Silmarils, channeling it through it, could it be said that it does the same things with the Three Rings, and thus is an equivelant of the One Ring?
Excuse my ranting, but i was really excited that Debbie finished three chapters today!
Posted by yiorgos @ 2001 May 29 05:50 PM EST
Oh, and for the record, Deb, those Tolkien books that I was flipping over so frantically in the bookstore the other night had a picture of Frodo running into the distance holding Sting, with Shelob in pursuit close behind. A pretty -major- spoiler for the end of Book 4, I thought.
Posted by Allison @ 2001 May 29 10:28 PM EST
Big Mike, that passage is actually in chapter 8. It's one of my favorites as well. It's quite a long passage, so I won't quote the whole thing, but you got most of it right-Sam and Frodo sleeping, Gollum touching Frodo's knee and debating whether or not to go on with his wicked plan, then Sam waking up, seeing Gollum "pawing at master", he says roughly, 'Hey you! What are you up to?' 'Nothing, nothing', said Gollum softly. 'Nice master!' 'I daresay,'said Sam. 'But where have you been to-sneaking off and sneaking back, you old villain?'
Gollum resolves to go ahead with his plan at this point, I believe, and says, 'Sneaking, sneaking! Hobbits always so polite, yes. Oh, nice hobbits! Smeagol brings them up secret ways that nobody else could find. Tired he is, thirsty he is, yes, thirsty; and he guides them and he searches for paths, and they say sneak, sneak. Very nice friends, O yes my precious, very nice.' Sam apologizes, then says, 'But where have you been to?' 'Sneaking!', said Gollum.
After that, Gollum continues to use the word 'sneaking' or 'sneak' in every sentence for the next page
He's not happy with Sam, no Precious, not at all! :-)
I agree, the dialog between Sam and Gollum does lend a touch of comic relief to an otherwise intense chapter.
Posted by Juleen @ 2001 May 30 02:15 AM EST
Yiorgos, the third Silmaril did make it into the bowels of the earth. At the end of the Silmarillion the last two of Feanor's sons gain posession of the two Silmarils captured by the Valar from Morgoth (Earendil having gotten the other into the sky as a star already). But the jewels would not suffer the touch of the two elves because of their merciless deeds, so Maglor thows his into the ocean and Maedhros throws himself and the jewel into a firey crack in the earth. Incedentally, I've always felt sorry for Maedhros; it seems like he was a good person who got didn't know what he was getting himself into when he took that oath!
Posted by Kendra Malm @ 2001 Jun 01 02:42 AM EST
This chapter had me horrified the first time I read it (and I was only 8 or 9....the trauma!). It's beyond this point that things really get dark and stay dark.
Posted by Keith Fraser @ 2001 Jun 01 06:25 AM EST
Now, see, I didn't find any humor in that Gollum passage. I could just see him looking up at Frodo and Sam from underneath his brows, speaking like a child who feels wronged, and was going to do something spiteful in revenge. That part really chilled me, because that is how Gollum sees his life; an endless parade of insults and wrongs done unto him, and every mean, cruel act he performs is his right, because he felt entitled to something better. I think we all know somebody who acts like that, if we haven't acted that way ourselves. Tolkien knew that, so while you do wish he would come to a bad end, you almost feel guilty about it, if you don't out-and-out pity him from the outset.
Keep on truckin', Debbie! By the way, ever read Stephen King's "Dark Tower" series? It isn't a blatant ripoff of LOTR, but it is heavily influenced by it.
Posted by Chris H. @ 2001 Jun 01 10:17 AM EST
Interesting, Chris. Would you recommend "The Dark Tower" series? My husband loves them and pulls them out to read almost as often as I pull out LOTR. In fact, now that he's finally reading LOTR he's been encouraging me to reciprocate by reading the "Dark Tower" books. I must ask him when he finishes LOTR what he thinks of the parallels between the two series.
Posted by Allison @ 2001 Jun 01 11:34 AM EST
Shelob's Lair is always such a creepy chapter. Go figure that i'm afraid of spiders. The Galadriel's phial part I love in that chapter. It's unforseen power puts that evil thing at bay. So happy that they killed it.
Posted by Glen @ 2001 Jun 01 03:51 PM EST
Allison, I would SO reccomend the "Dark Tower" books. Whenever I reread LOTR, I usually have DT as a dessert afterwards. Granted, it is a lot darker then Tolkien, with its oppressive landscape and generally cruel-hearted secondary characters, and Stephen King's style is a 180 from Tolkien's poetry-in-prose, but the two are truly complimentary. Its themes of the Quest, and the Fellowship, and the Putting Right Of The World are familiar to Ring fans, yet the contemorary quality of it is almost jarring. Besides, I think Roland (the Gunslinger; protagonist of the series) would wax Aragorn's candy @$$ in a Pier 6 brawl!
Posted by Chris H @ 2001 Jun 02 07:46 AM EST
OK, Chris, you and John have convinced me. Once Deb finishes her journey and LOTR can be pried from my fingers again, I'll pick up "Dark Tower".
Sigh, I'm looking sadly at my not long ago very nice and pristine hard-cover copy of LOTR. It's been travelling with me daily for over a month now (since John is reading my paperbacks) and it's starting to look a bit grubby from travelling in my knapsack and the pages look a bit bent and loose, especially at favorite passages, and I dropped it once, which didn't do much for the binding and the ribbon bookmark is starting to fray. Sigh. So, part of me thinks maybe I should return it to the shelf and most of me doesn't want to be parted from it yet and all of me is learning to accept that this likely will not be the last copy of LOTR that I will buy :). (as Allison shrugs and puts LOTR into her knapsack once more knowing that, like the Velveteen Rabbit, books that are shabby and well-loved are the most real books of all)
Posted by Allison @ 2001 Jun 02 08:43 AM EST
Glad to see mention of the Dark Tower series. My heart momentarily stopped when I heard of Stephen King's accident, thinking the books might not get finished. Definite parallels w/LOTR. Intriguing idea of pitting Roland against Aragorn. I think you'd have to give Aragorn his own pair of six shooters to make it fair, though. I realize this site's for LOTR, but has anyone heard if Mr. King has written, is writing, or will write the next book in the Dark Tower series?
Posted by Roland @ 2001 Jun 02 12:32 PM EST
Hooray for Allison! Once you start DT, you'll be as hooked as you are on LOTR, I promise! If you are a
Stephen King fan, the series really brings all of his stories together into one immense saga, particularly "The Stand", "Eyes of the Dragon", and "Insomnia". And Roland, I was talking the Mad Dog of Gilead vs. the Elfstone in a bare-knuckle brannigan. THAT would make a good pay-per-view on Geek-O-Vision! And, yes, Mr. King is hard at work on DT5. Go to www.geocities.com/darktowercompendium for the full scoop, not to mention other goodies relating to our favorite Gunslinger. This goes for all of you; you won't be disappointed! Hey, Debbie, how about a DT weblog next?
Posted by Chris H. @ 2001 Jun 02 05:29 PM EST
Bad news Glen. If my memory serves, Shelob is cowed not killed.
Posted by Alan C @ 2001 Jun 04 09:20 AM EST
