The Siege of Gondor

Loved the first paragraph, with Pippin obviously disappointed about the quality of the food, and Gandalf scolding him. A much-needed paragraph, since the rest of the chapter is so grim!

I hope this whole experience doesn't beat all the fun spirit out of Pippin (IF HE SURVIVES, THAT IS!!! :-( ). If he lasts through to the end, he will be a more serious and mature hobbit. Maturing is usually a good thing, of course, but it doesn't completely change him.


Already it seemed years to Pippin since he had sat there before, in some half-forgotten time when he had still been a hobbit, a light-hearted wanderer touched little by the perils he had passed through. Now he was one small soldier in a city preparing for a great assault, clad in the proud but sombre mannger of the Tower of Guard.


So why is Gandalf back to grey again? Wearing a grey cloak (confusing, since Pippin sees a "flash of white and silver" coming from the North), being called "Gandalf the Grey". Only Pippin refers to him as "White Rider".

I don't like Denethor anymore. He's obviously been disregarding Faramir in favour of his oldest son. And I felt for Faramir, who obviously wants his father's approval/love (though not to the extreme than Denethor seems to imply). It's pretty clear that Faramir is more honest, friendlier, and more heroic than Boromir ever was, but Denethor doesn't care.

I'm glad Faramir finally spoke up in his own defense instead of letting Denethor keep waxing eloquent about what a better son Boromir was. Interesting that, like Boromir, Denethor lusts after the Ring. Glad it's with Sam (speaking of Sam, I'm dying to know what's going on with Frodo and Sam! Hope we get back to them soon).

And what a way to send off his son into battle! I felt like bopping Daddy Dearest on the nose, and I'm a non-violent person:


'Then farewell!' said Faramir. 'But if I should return, think better of me!'

'That depends on the manner of your return,' said Denethor.


!!!

I may sound cruel, but I'm glad Denethor felt so badly when his son was brought back, seriously wounded. Serves the old geezer right. PLUS he called Frodo a "witless halfling". Hmph. >:-(

Ok, so maybe I did feel a twinge of sympathy for him near the end of the chapter when he insisted on staying by his son's bedside while his city was under attack around him.

But only a -very- tiny twinge.

[Previous entry: "The Return of the King: BOOK V - Chapter 3"] [Next entry: "The Return of the King: BOOK V - Chapter 5"]

Posted by Nathan @ 2001 Jun 05 11:23 AM EST

I find that I mostly have pity for Denethor. By this time it is obvious that he is very, very ill. It's just appalling that he has such power over his city, all the people trusting him, and the larger war.

I think these chapters are where Tolkien shows some of his greatest power as a writer but they are NOT fun to read.

For those able to read spoilers, I suggest checking out the two-part article on The Lord of the Rings at www.salon.com. It's pretty heady but I think thought provoking and may inspire me to do some more writing about the Professor and his epic.

Posted by Kevin @ 2001 Jun 05 11:33 AM EST

Very good analysis of this chapter Deb! To be fair to Denethor, he has been under incredible strain - the foreboding of the coming War has been with him for many years, while he was virtually powerless to stop it - and it is on his people that the heaviest blow seems likely to fall. Still that does not - IMO - excuse his treatment of Faramir. Not do I like his "witless halfling" comment - not so subtle racism there - especially when he has an obviously well witted halfling at his side!

And speaking of Pippin - if I remember he correctly - this chapter ends with him finding Gandalf, but "cowering into a shadow." Wonder what could be scaring him so? Keep reading!

Posted by Charly @ 2001 Jun 05 11:35 AM EST

The thing I find inexcusable about Denethor's treatment of Faramir is the fact that this is clearly how he's always treated his son, stress or no stress. Boromir was the favorite, and Denethor made it absolutely clear that Faramir didn't live up to the standard, even though he was a greater man in most every way (including the fact that he loved his brother so much despite Denethor's goading)

Posted by Nathan @ 2001 Jun 05 11:51 AM EST

Denthor is a great character. He is very stern and who can blame him in the tight spot that he is in. But it accentuates the hobbit's ability to.....be hobbit like....in the face of danger or hopelessness. Which we have seen before. As Gandalf once said, Hobbits are made of sterner stuff that you might expect. (or something like that)

Posted by Big Mike @ 2001 Jun 05 11:59 AM EST

I too find Denethor's trwatment of Faramir infuriating. It's very clear that Boromir's shortcomings can be traced to Denethor's influence, and that Faramir must be an incredibly strong person to be able to act as ethically as he has in the face of his father's disapproval. His treatment of Frodo and Sam is all the more impressive in light of what we now know about his relationship with his father. In Denethor/Boromir one sees the the same approach to the Ring that Sarruman espouses, Denethor wouldn't hesitate to use the Ring for an instant.

Posted by Jeff Bohnhoff @ 2001 Jun 05 11:59 AM EST

Denethor is my least favorite good guy. I have always hated him for the way he treated Faramir, poor guy. But, even though I don't like him, he is yet another deep and well-written character in a series stuffed with them. Hurrah for the Proffessor! What I think is so amazing about Tolkien's characters is that he manages to show us what they're like in a few scenes or bits of dialogue, without having to tell us every single detail of their lives. Now if only I could write like that!

Posted by talierin @ 2001 Jun 05 12:20 PM EST

I see the root of Denethor and Boromir's problems as pride. They think that they are strong/wise enough to use the Ring. Faramir has pride, but is humble as well, and in that humility has greater character than his father or brother.

Posted by Jeff Schaefer @ 2001 Jun 05 01:16 PM EST

Jeff,

You're exactly right. As with most people swollen with self-pride, the one character strength that Denethor is utterly incapable of recognizing in another is humility. He sees it as weakness.

Posted by Jeff Bohnhoff @ 2001 Jun 05 02:28 PM EST

This chapter is that calm before the storm, I love the stuff!

Just one thing to say:
I LOVE FARAMIR!!!! :o)))) He is CHARMING!

Go on, Debbie!

(I put "Str." to my name but I'm still the same Katerina as before ;o))

Posted by Katerina Strosova @ 2001 Jun 05 04:58 PM EST

Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war! Ahem.

I agree with the comments about Denethor wholeheartedly (he, Boromir's Ghost and Faramir should be on Jerry Springer ;)). However, I don't agree that the upcoming chapters aren't fun to read. They might not be cheerful, but they are glorious, exciting and tragic.

Posted by Keith Fraser @ 2001 Jun 05 06:04 PM EST

I notice that a lot of people say that they pity Denethor. Interesting. Nobody says, "I feel for Denethor", or "I dig what Denethor's feeling right now". In my mind, "pity" connotes looking down on somebody. We feel "compassion" for Theoden, who snaps out of his grief, or at least deals with it in a mature manner. Denethor simply allows himself to be consumed with his dark emotions, thus putting him more on a level with Gollum almost (I can feel the flame beginning already!)more than a descendant of Numenor. Both behave badly (understatement), and expect everybody to understand. Again, Tolkien shows that he isn't just some eccentric scholar with a penchant for making up languages for fairy-tale characters.

Posted by Chris H. @ 2001 Jun 05 09:43 PM EST

Well, I LOVE the last two paragraphs of this chapter:

"Gandalf did not move. And in that very moment, away behind in some
courtyard of the City, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking
nothing of wizardry or war, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far
above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn.
And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns,
horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of
the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last."

It makes me creep all over!

Posted by Katerina Str. @ 2001 Jun 06 02:48 AM EST

A.S. Byatt writes in Possession:

"It is possible for a writer to make, or remake at least, for a reader, the primary pleasures of eating, or drinking, or looking on, or sex … They do not habitually elaborate on the equally intense pleasure of reading."

This chapter for me is a deeply personal illustration of how LOTR evolves as I get older. I used to find this chapter rather dull, and race through it to see what happened next. Then I spent a hideous year, depressed and blocked in a heavily polluted city. I had an inner sense that life wasn't worth living, of doom inescapable. The sky was mostly brown. Now, 2 years on from that time, I find the Minas Tirith scenes intensely moving and ultimately hopeful. I think LOTR is a fairy tale in the oldest, truest sense; a story that was medicine for the soul of the author, and for the souls of all his readers. I used to feel frustration as a kid that I couldn't go to Middle Earth. Not any longer.

Thank you Debbie -- I think you've got a piercing eye, and I'm really enjoying myself reading all this

Posted by Nail Paring @ 2001 Jun 06 03:10 AM EST

I've always found that "with your shield or on it" comment of Denethor's particularly cruel. It's no wonder Faramir was driven to his dangerous and foolhardy excesses of bravery. (Faramir's my favorite Man, too!)

Posted by Janet Croft @ 2001 Jun 06 01:38 PM EST

Nail,

Your comments about the evolution of your understanding of LOTR was very interesting. I too find that as I grow older, my understanding of it changes and grows. I think your reaction to city life was much like Prof Tolkien's own, and it seems pretty clear that this was a major inspiration for Mordor and its works. I think this is a book that can be read at every stage of life, and each time something about it is a revelation. I also found Chris' comparison of Gollum and Denethor very interesting. I think he's absolutely right. The only difference between them is that Denethor was of more noble mind before lust for the Ring claimed him. Also, Gollum's possession of it for all those years would of course have taken a more drastic toll. However, essentially, they are little different in many ways. I find myself feeling both anger and pity toward Denethor, in much the same way that I might when reading about an abusive parent in the "real" world. I feel anger for the pain they cause, but I also pity anyone who has enough inner pain and anger to cause such pain.

Posted by Jeff Bohnhoff @ 2001 Jun 06 03:59 PM EST

I agree completely about the book evolving in meaning and depth as we read it with more life experience. That's one of the reasons I'm enjoying Debbie's commentary so much - we can never really go back and re-read it the first time, and the first time I read it, I was too young to pick up on many of the things Debbie has. Re-reading it later, with the foreknowledge of the rest of the story, was never the same.

I almost wish I hadn't read it when I was younger, but not quite. (An interesting thought for those parents who are sharing the story with their pre-teens....)

Posted by Olorin @ 2001 Jun 07 02:09 AM EST